Pokémon 2021/22 games discussion ? (gamers only)

[tobodile]

Curious to know each of your thoughts on Brilliant Diamond, Shining Pearl, and/or legends. please share them with me.



LLLF

[Adoochi]

For the Gen 4 remakes, I feel like it wasn't really necessary. My only major complaints with Gen 4 (the originals) was that the game speed in battles was slow as hell, and that they had an over-reliance on HMs. Compare this with the previous games which lacked major modern mechanics like the physical/special split, and the Gen 4 remakes start to feel a little redundant. Beyond that, I'm concerned that they're going the change/remove things that is going to stray from the intent of the originals (which IIRC, is what happened with the Gen 3 remakes). From a preservationist standpoint, I'm happy that we're getting them, but I feel like once people get past their initial nostalgia bias most people are going to see them as "just another pokemon game".

As for Legends; eh??? The Gen 8 games weren't good, and I feel like this is going to be more of the same.

Regardless, both are going to sell super well, because pokemon. And that's the real issue, since it means Game Freak doesn't have to push to make them products worth purchasing, which has resulted (IMO) in a steady decline in quality of the games post Gen 5. I don't think I'll be purchasing either tbh, despite me starting the franchise with Diamond and Pearl back when they were new.

[tobodile]

Honestly agree with you super hard on most of this. Although i’m a huge pokémon fanboy, I haven’t loved a pokémon game since B/W. as far as BD/SP go, I would more or less be fine with the ORAS treatment as long as they don’t remove the cool shit like battle frontier/underground/platinum exclusive content. Mega evolution got leaked/confirmed today for the games though which could be cool as long as they are actually ADDING CONTENT. I also hope that the post-gen IV mechanics like the fairy types, dynamic battling, and HM removal don’t continue to be stale husks of the old exploration and training mechanics.

I don’t really agree with an $80 price for a worse remake of an originally $35 game similar to the remastered Skyward Sword. kinda dumb that they’re gonna sell so well and keep pumping out bad games every year. (give me mega honchkrow)

On the other hand, I think legends is very promising, but, similarly, could also get super fucked up like you said. I love the concept and everyone’s always wanted a free roam open world pokémon game, but that demo was EMBARASSING. Holy frame drops!! they should have just revealed it without gameplay because boy does it look shitty. I can only hope that they took a worthwhile lesson from breath of the wild because this momentum could be ruined so fast by typical game freak shenanigans.

In the end, i’m probably just gonna continue to be a corporate drone and buy the games. Seeing the reveal in the pokémon direct almost made me cry because i also started playing with gen IV. I can only hope they don’t fuck it up too bad I guess. thank you for taking the time to discuss.

[cyndaquirl]

Honestly, I'm excited as fuck for both the remakes and Legends Arceus and the pessimism I'm seeing from the community genuinely makes me sad.

Firstly, I will agree with @Adoochi that Diamond and Pearl don't really NEED remakes, because the games are still quite playable and don't have any glaring flaws. However, I think this remake is really important for the new generation of pokemon fans, and here's why:

Pokemon is a unique franchise because it is generational. This is the 25th anniversary of pokemon, and that means that kids that bought the first games are now well into adulthood. Even kids who were a bit late to the franchise (like myself, my first game was SoulSilver) are in their 20s. In addition to these adult fans, pokemon steadily picks up new, younger fans with every game; the same games that we play are also enjoyed by kids as young as 4 or 5. With every new fan who starts with any given game, there's a string of games that came before it that that user may never play. If it weren't for emulators, I would never have played Leaf Green, Yellow, or Crystal because I only had a DSi and not a gameboy. Similarly, a kid who starts with Pokemon Shield probably doesn't have a DS to play older games on (or the ability to emulate, which isn't as fun anyway), and thus would never get to experience the huge chunk of the pokemon franchise released for that console (DS consoles are expensive and hard to find nowadays, and copies of original Diamond and Pearl are also pretty rare.). By remaking the older games, they are made accessible again. Even if BD/SP are carbon copies of the original game with new graphics, or if they're different in some ways that may disappoint me, I still think they're going to be a great addition to the franchise because they allow new players to explore Sinnoh, which I think is one of the best regions. The way I see it, the remakes were not developed with us "older fans" in mind so much as they were created for the newer fans to get to explore the past. Legends Arceus is the one that was made for us, in my opinion.

I really think Legends Arceus has a lot of potential and the concept has me extremely excited. It seems like it's going to be a new series of games that focus on the "lore" of various legendary pokemon, which I think is the coolest idea ever. The frame drops in the trailer don't really scare me because the game is literally over a year away from release; there's no doubt in my mind that the final product won't look *that* bad (because damn it did look pretty sketchy, I'll admit). Perhaps I'm naive to get my hopes up, but I really think this is going to be a great game. Even if the community tears it apart (which they probably will, no one hates pokemon more than pokemon fans), I know I'll have a good time playing it regardless.

Also, I just wanna say that I disagree that the gen 8 games were bad. They weren't my favourite release by any means, but they were still enjoyable and I had fun playing them. I also disagree that the games have been declining in quality since gen 5. Gen 5 has always been my least favourite gen while gens 6 and 7 were just as fun to me as gens 1-4. Maybe I'm just seeing everything through super rose-tinted glasses but I just really love pokemon games and I think some people just like to complain when a game doesn't tick every one of their 5000 boxes. Yes sw/sh is more linear than the other games, yes the rival in sun/moon is insufferable and a walking tutorial, and yes the 3d graphics in x/y were kinda weird. But does that really ruin the games for you? Do those flaws really make the games "bad" or unplayable? I thought all of those games were fun/enjoyable despite all of the complaints from the community. I'm not saying that the complaints were false, but in my opinion a game doesn't have to be perfect- it just has to be fun.

Anyway, I'm excited for the remakes and I'm excited for Arceus. I think I'll probably end up buying both, though I'm still on the fence about the remakes. I really loved Sinnoh and I'm super glad it's getting the spotlight again.

[Adoochi]

While I do think that it's good that new players will be able to play the Sinnoh games, I also feel like a remake should have a reason for people who played the originals to pick up the remake. Things like fixing major issues with the original release, adding in modern elements (while still keeping the intent of the original game), as well as potentially adding in brand new content. An updated coat of paint is nice, make no mistake, but they don't make a remake worth it on their own. The only major issues I have with the SInnoh games (or more specifically; Platinum) is the over reliance on HMs and the slow battle speed. Both of these issues I think could be more efficiently addressed with a cheap (both to produce and to purchase) re-release on the Switch.

Game preservation is unfortunately a very real issue in today's day and age, to the point where a lot of people have to emulate to be able to play older games without spending an arm and a leg for original copies and systems to play them on. I think everyone expects for Game Freak to charge full price for the remakes which (IMO) won't be worth the asking price if they made the originals readily available. I also think that Game Freak is specifically banking on this nostalgia to sell them to veterans. People have been asking for them for years, and the announcement tweet specifically played to this. Beyond that, it's a remake of a beloved classic, of course it's designed to be sold to the veterans.

I won't really say anything on Legends; I saw a bit of the reveal trailer and that was about it. My previous thoughts on it still apply.

As for Gen 8?
(okay, so I kind of have to preface this by saying this isn't an attack on anyone that likes the game; if you did, more power to you, but I gotta rant a bit)

I think the Gen 8 games are absolutely terrible. The difficulty is non-existent, especially with there being no way to turn off the XP share, the game looks like a crappy PS2 game, the plot is shite, there's constant reuse of old assets (beyond that of the returning pokemon), there's very little in the way of post game in the base game, and they're charging $20USD more for them than the previous games??? And they also released two DLC packs (neither of which were very good, from what I've heard) for an additional $30USD????

Yes, using DLC to deliver additional content is a much less scummy method than forcing consumers to essentially repurchase the entire game a year later, but that doesn't make it good when the base game was such an obvious rush job. And it was a rush job, make no mistake. Game Freak has the budget to make the game as polished an experience as possible, both from a gameplay and visual perspective, but didn't because they were greedy and knew it would sell anyways.

Don't believe me? Pokemon is the highest grossing media franchise in the world.
Let me repeat; highest grossing media franchise in the world.
(Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_h ... franchises)
They had the budget, and I will not hear otherwise.

Anyways, rant over for Gen 8. Gen 6 and 7 were okay, not bad games by any means, but I feel they were lacking the same passion and drive to improve that games before them had. Like, I feel like each game up to and including Gen 5 was bigger and better than the games that came before it, and that they were something to genuinely look forward to. Gen 6, IMO, didn't feel like a major improvement on Gen 5. The game fully used 3D models now, which is neat, but I feel like there was something missing. A certain Je ne sais quoi, if you'll pardon my pun. Same thing with Gen 7 (again, IMO). I think the thing missing in the post Gen 5 games was Soul (or Heart, whatever you want to call it). The only feeling I really get when I play Gen 6 and 7 is apathy. Like the dev teams didn't have same passion in them for the franchise they did years prior.

I dunno, I feel like if it was up to the dev team, Pokemon would have ended years ago (or at least gone on a long hiatus).

Anyways, essay over.
maybe i should get a job with an essay writing service if I can write 700+ words on a franchise I don't even really like outside of a few games

[Adoochi]

wait shit i missed a perfect chance to make a soulsilver/heartgold joke in the last paragraph fuck
this is why I dont get paid for this

[cyndaquirl]

it's a remake of a beloved classic, of course it's designed to be sold to the veterans.

true, but i think it's like, 60/40, with the 40 being the veteran players. i think for the most part the remakes are for new players to have a go at the game. of course i have no way of knowing this for sure, but it's how i see it. to me, the Arceus game is the game "designed" for old sinnoh fans, although there will of course be a ton of people who buy both and enjoy the remakes for nostalgia's sake.

in regards to gen 8, it's difficult to argue about this subject because so much of it comes down to just player opinion. i can't fully disagree with anything you said about the gen 8 games, but all i can say is i didnt really find them that bad. the things you heavily disliked were minor annoyances for me that didn't take much away from the overall experience of the games. the plot was probably one of the worst ones in any pokemon game, i'll admit (especially the dialogue which seemed poorly written), but again this didn't ruin the game for me. idk, i personally don't play pokemon games solely for the plot, so a bad plot isn't that much of a turn off for me. it's a bit of a bummer because of course i'd much rather a better plot, but at the end of the day i'm still gonna have fun completing the pokedex and hunting for shinies, breeding for IV's and EV training etc.

there were some things i thought the games did well, such as the soundtrack and the wild area. ok, the wild area didnt LOOK stellar (those trees were wack), but i thought it was cool to have an area where you're connected online to other trainers who are running around doing the same thing you are, and you can team up with them to do "boss fights" and catch more powerful pokemon. it's something that no other pokemon game has done before and i thought it was pretty interesting! also, i liked being able to see wild pokemon running around. i always wished that was how it was in older games and i was really excited when it was introduced.

anyway, your complaints are definitely valid about gen 8 but we just have different opinions on what makes a pokemon game "good."

[LesbianaJames]

Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl: not really hyped, but nothing against them, as there is nothing gameplay-wise I can really criticize, and the graphical choices don't personally bother me. If they are more one-to-one remakes, I probably won't get them, but I'll have to wait and see what other changes are in store.

Pokemon Legends: Arceus: I am super hyped. The idea has so much potential, and I just hope they are able to capitalize on it. I don't really mind if it looks poor, similar to Sword/Shield , as long as the gameplay is more fresh and exciting. It kinda reminds me of how I thought Pokemon Go would be back in 2016 or whenever. I thought you'd be able to catch in the wild by throwing balls and then train them up through traditional-style battling. There is a 99% chance I buy this game when it comes out.